How does Trackmate determine race placings in a couple of formats..

[Richo99]

Couple of quick questions someone may know the answers to with Trackmate.

1. In championship mode, with points, how does the program determine race positions if there are equal points. For Instance a round robin with 10 racers, and 3 people on say 12 points at the top, how does it determine 1,2,3 ?? Is it based on time to complete/cross the finish line in each bracket ??..

 

1. If we do round robin 10 lap races, the power cuts once all cars complete the lap after the winner. At the end how does the program determine placings. On a 4 lane track, if 10 racers competing complete all laps, all would be on 40 laps. How does the program determine positions ??..

I would like to try some of these other format races on club nights, but have always just done round robin timed races, swap lanes where you stop and then gather points of a lap at the end. But if I can get a feel for the way results are calculated so its fair, I can run a few different formats..

Hoping someone can assist.

Regards

Pete

[SlotsNZ]

I can’t answer for either of the modes you asked about, but it sounds like you are running an old version of the software. - Latest version is 9.72, but 9.61 did the same

for round robin timed heats, there is no need to move cars across lanes between heats (which is an absolute pain to remember positions for the drivers who don’t run all their lane heats consecutively), as the software calculates total elapsed time for the completed laps in each heat, so drivers on the same number of laps are placed in finishing order of smallest elapsed time (after all heats are run), and downward to greatest elapsed time.

see how Snake is placed before me due to less elapsed time for the same number of completed laps, and Marty before Pedro for the same reason. (T-Time)

[Richo99]

Thanks. Advice appreciated..

Yes been running Nomad Raceway in Toowoomba for 20+ years using Trackmate on about 6 different tracks over the years.. All our races are all round robin rotation, and yes we peg the spot where you finish if you go off and have to come back on. Or if you have completed all 4 brackets, we record the "point" of the track you have completed. Can be a pain, very manual. I just would like something where all start at the start line each bracket, especially with the break out lap racing we do a bit of now with our DSC class cars. I would aim to do maybe "lap" races, say 10 lap brackets (4 lane track). I have done them, and the last car to pass the line after the winner has done 10 laps the power cuts. But I was never confident that the order was correct. But will try again and pay more attention to the total time and see if in order. We get between 10 and 15 racers, and a 10 lap x 4 race it is likely that about 8 will do all 10 laps. So if the total time is the total of 4 brackets to complete the 10 laps, it should sort them correct..

The only issue I see with timed races and going back to the start each time, is if 2 guys are very close on track racing. At 27 metres a lap the result can change from the last lap before time cuts, by that I mean if driver A is just in front last lap before time cuts, but driver B passes him on that lap, system would not recognise that if the track power cuts and they don't complete that lap. It goes back to the lap before. Probably I don't make sense with this, but in my head I see a potential issue. The system is not perfect but in general serves the purpose.

It may be the same with "Championship Mode", where it allocates points. If you have racers on equal points (very common) it may split based on time to complete as well. Unsure on that one. I want to use the Championship Mode on the oval especially. But just want to be confident it will sort right.

I have sent a question to Daniel at Trackmate to see if he will clarify as well.

Thanks for the tip, I'll trial it tomorrow night..

Regards

Pete Richards

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Richo99

[SlotsNZ]

17 minutes ago, Richo99 said:

……….

The only issue I see with timed races and going back to the start each time, is if 2 guys are very close on track racing. At 27 metres a lap the result can change from the last lap before time cuts, by that I mean if driver A is just in front last lap before time cuts, but driver B passes him on that lap, system would not recognise that if the track power cuts and they don't complete that lap. It goes back to the lap before. Probably I don't make sense with this, but in my head I see a potential issue. The system is not perfect but in general serves the purpose.

I know exactly what you mean - can happen, one driver might be ahead at the time “peg” when the last full lap was completed ….. then deslot the next corner, so the elapsed time doesn’t tell the true story.

We aren’t quite serious enough about the overall results that we can be bothered worrying about that detail of possible eventuality.

-It also gives us ammunition for excuses, bravado, and blaming the other guy for nerfs, needle and breaking wind.  

[Richo99]

11 minutes ago, SlotsNZ said:

I know exactly what you mean - can happen, one driver might be ahead at the time “peg” when the last full lap was completed ….. then deslot the next corner, so the elapsed time doesn’t tell the true story.

We aren’t quite serious enough about the overall results that we can be bothered worrying about that detail of possible eventuality.

-It also gives us ammunition for excuses, bravado, and blaming the other guy for nerfs, needle and breaking wind.  

100 % agree.. Especially breaking wind 

[big dennis]

Hello Richo and Mark.

Since I've been 'back' in 1:32 racing (10 years?) I've been in the luxurious position of not having to use any of the computerised  lap-scoring/lap-counting programs ... there has always been someone else prepared to perform that function.

But at all the venues I've raced at recently it is common practice to 'peg' the finishing position of cars either with a marker or by placing the car in the infield of the track. If two or more cars finish on the same lap then the correct placings are determined 'manually'.  There can be up to 15 entrants for each race and I've yet to hear of any of the organisers declaring it a 'pain' to sort out the placings. A couple of minutes is usually enough.

That method is a lot less complex than the one used at a particular venue, where the partial laps are manually recorded (on a whiteboard) at the end of each heat, with cars then being returned to the starting line for the beginning of the next heat.

At the end of the race three partial lap scores for each entrant are compiled manually, and then added to the computer score to work out the total score. That does sound like a pain to me.

Let's not completely discard the 'human factor' even if it proves to be a minor irritation at times.

Den

[kalbfellp]

We no longer use Trakmate, but the positions,or parts of laps are determined by the time of the previous lap, not the current lap.

Race Coordinator does exactly the same, so no matter what method ( laps or time) 

the time or parts of lap can often be incorrect.

I have tested this on several tracks,using timed race with the program trying to provide tenths.The last 4 times we have tested this the tenths have been incorrect for in each race, when manually checked.

I know several clubs that still believe that the program is correct, but unless you have sensors each 1/10 of a lap the program only has information from the last time the car passed over the sensor, it has no idea if a car slowed,de slotted or got passed during the last lap.

Hope this makes sense.

[SlotsNZ]

Yup, that makes sense Phil - we had already established/discussed this specific thing.

Even 1/10th lap sensors wouldn’t solve the problem fully, as often drivers are separated by just part of a metre each heat.

What it DOES do is add up the elapsed time for the completed laps in all the heats, and shuffle drivers who finish on identical total laps, into the race finishing order, based upon the smallest accumulated time for all heats, for all completed laps (at least in the most recent versions off the software).

In our club, we just feel the pain of drivers who come off after completing SOME heats, noting the positions (leaving cars beside the lanes where they may get hit by a deslotting car is not an option), and having all but the first heat start with drivers scattered around the track instead of side by side, is just not our preferred option. ( We run 2 minute heats on regular club nights, no one has ever opted for fixed lap races)

Even the shuffling cars across lanes to the same position next lane has flaws. It is one thing to start the next heat at the beginning of a straight, another entirely to be at the start of a tight curve, heading out of sight under a bridge. 

In the end, each club has to decide which limitations they will accept