2015 Group 5 Race 4

[David Carter]

I'm just talking some smack

All good

And yes let's see some more Aussies

Enjoy the great proxies that you nz guys

Produce

 

Rossko

 

Mark does Boltz not count as an Aussie

[nitro0440]

Well done to Mac and all the team , for a well run round ... Congratulations to the top 3 , great going Bram for making the top 3 , looks like my Capri raced better than it qualified .... Great to see there's never a dole race in each round , always some surprises in the results , just show's you never know what can happen ....

[Wobble]

I'm just talking some smack

All good ��

And yes let's see some more Aussies

Enjoy the great proxies that you nz guys

Produce

 

Rossko

 

Your cars are a credit to you Rossco.

I'm hoping like hell my Capri can keep ahead of your Moby Dick Porker for a change.

Only time will tell

Edited September 18, 2015 by Wobble

[David Carter]

I'm just talking some smack

All good ��

And yes let's see some more Aussies

Enjoy the great proxies that you nz guys

Produce

 

Rossko

 

Your cars are a credit to you Rossco.

I'm hoping like hell my Capri can keep ahead of your Moby Dick Porker for a change.

Only time will tell

 

that moby dick car is a pleasure to drive

very nice build

[GAS41T]

Yah

I got my eye on you wobble

Well done to you sir

 

Rossko

[drw21]

Yeah Thanks Heaps guys for Race 4.

 

I don't want to open a can of worms but if a car is wheel standing under power wouldn't the driver turn his controller down or adjust his driving to suit?

 

Dave

[David Carter]

Yeah Thanks Heaps guys for Race 4.

 

I don't want to open a can of worms but if a car is wheel standing under power wouldn't the driver turn his controller down or adjust his driving to suit?

 

Dave

 

yes but my controller does not have that much adjustment

still using a old professor motor

[SlotsNZ]

Yeah Thanks Heaps guys for Race 4.

 

I don't want to open a can of worms but if a car is wheel standing under power wouldn't the driver turn his controller down or adjust his driving to suit?

 

Dave

 

Dave, not a can of worms, a jolly salient point for discussion. You can do all that, feather the throttle or whatever but the bottom line is, at 12 volts, if a car isn't balanced so it CAN'T lift the nose out of the slot, it is losing time out of corners. Just another something for the guys to learn for future builds.

 

I know when I am setting up a car, especially a short wheelbase car; I try and replicate best grip conditions and make sure it can't lift the nose out of the slot. Some of it can be braid settings, but more so the weight [telling grandma how to suck eggs here]

 

I know there was one car with stiff braids, and it just bunny hopped the nose up the main straight at Macs. I fiddled the braids at one stage to try and reduce it, but it fair destroyed usable acceleration.

[slotmadmac]

My personal view is that choking controllers to get a car around the track is a no no in proxies. Turning attack down? Sure. Choking the overall performance of the motor? Not so much.

 

In this round, on my track, Drew's Capri with the NSR 30k was far too much of a handful. Nice car, Nice build. Far too much motor.

 

I could have choked my controller and it would have been a much sweeter drive - a definite podium contender - but to my mind that contravenes the spirit of a proxy race.

[branco]

I agree. My viewpoint is that using the knobs on controllers to adjust how a car has been set up is wrong. I would like to see adjustable controllers banned from Proxies but that's just me.

[SlotsNZ]

I agree. My viewpoint is that using the knobs on controllers to adjust how a car has been set up is wrong. I would like to see adjustable controllers banned from Proxies but that's just me.

 

I have to disagree with you and Mac on that most strongly.

 

Apart from the fact that 95% of controllers have sensitivity knobs. so you would have no drivers for proxies, just think about the reality of hosting a round.

How exactly could you determine what controllers are used and how they are set. And since every brand and model of controller has a different baseline sensitivity and most have different curves, nothing a car builder could do apart from putting a super low powered motor in a car could overcome the massive variations in controller performance.

 

The builder can build the car, but cannot possibly know what controller each driver at each track will use, and where that driver would set the controls.(and leave them set) Therefore, when it comes to every heat of every round, the entire race becomes a crap-shoot of luck as to whether the car is dead easy to control or almost impossible to drive. How is that fair?

 

I experienced this (and with the rule imposed at the last minute as well) in the Slot.it Shootout one year in the USA.

It made the entire series a farce. Any driver who had put anything hotter than an orange bell in their car was automatically on a hiding to nothing.

 

- Actually, at least round two hosts said privately to me "this is a stupid situation and a disgrace" and ignored it anyway.

 

It's real simple, the driver adjusts their controller to get the best from each car... end of story. What could possibly be wrong with that. No car even GETS an advantage, it just doesn't get an unfair disadvantage which would occur if your theory was imposed.

[slotmadmac]

I'm all for adjusting sensitivity but choking the motor is like turning the voltage down in that lane to compensate for a car that would not be competitive under normal track conditions. To me that contravenes the spirit of Proxy racing. I never do it.

[Peter Gunn]

Wow this is getting a bit hot , cannot see where the problem really is as most modern controllers are similar in most things , and it comes down to the driver in the end how he uses it and adjusts to the different cars , always thought silly me it was how good the driver was , or wasn't a good driver will normally handle most things , and know what car he can push a bit and those he cant , i spent many years racing other peoples cars mainly i will admit in endurance racing where there were a few cars hard to drive but i knew they were and adjusted my diving to match the car and ok i was not quite as quick with that car but i did ok as i didn't deslot ,which as we all know is where a lot of time is lost.

[David Carter]

I'm all for adjusting sensitivity but choking the motor is like turning the voltage down in that lane to compensate for a car that would not be competitive under normal track conditions. To me that contravenes the spirit of Proxy racing. I never do it.

 

exactly my thoughts on this topic

[David Carter]

this has all started from a little tip that I thought might help Tony's car be a bit more stable

that's it and nothing more

I am not putting his car or his tuning abilities down

I only had a couple of deslots with his car and it was on the same corner

I adjusted my driving to suit

Edited September 18, 2015 by David Carter

[SlotsNZ]

Hey, I do have strong opinion about people being able to set the controller right for each car, but sure not 'hot' from my end, sorry if it was taken that way. I'm all cool,

 

As I've never owned a controller with a choke, I am not sure if I understand them right, but I am told it gives "slower" response right through the trigger range until you hit full throttle then it gives full volts?

 

Tony's car is very good, actually better than very good, it's brilliant; but I think it would have benefited from just a couple of grams (more?) front weight to keep the nose down, as would some others.

I think I had at least one de-slot with his car, and some from others when accelerating out of the tightest corners on my lane.

Just part of making proxy car very easy to drive, and avoiding "surprising" rivers who have maybe just a couple of laps to adapt to it before driving it in the heat.

 

I was surprised at at least a couple of cars had the original stiff braid, which doesn't help them keep the nose down in the slot.

[slotmadmac]

Choking a car drops volts to the motor so reduces performance across the whole power band. Some controllers - e.g. 3rd Eye - have a second chokes function that chokes the motor until full throttle, when full power is returned.

[Wobble]

'wants to lift the nose too easily' was pretty much the comment for my Capri on this track last year. I learnt it. My BB was lifting the nose on Wazzas track at 11.5v during testing so I new it would be all over the place on other tracks running at 12v. I'm in favour of drivers using whatever settings they prefer to use. I'm just hoping like crazy I can get a car ready to run regardless and that comment last year helped a lot, so thanks to whoever made it

[nvmyre]

 

As I've never owned a controller with a choke, I am not sure if I understand them right, but I am told it gives "slower" response right through the trigger range until you hit full throttle then it gives full volts?

 

 

That's a confusing statement because by that description you own a controller with a 'choke'. The same controller as JK and I? However it is called Traction Control. A proper choke as Mac is describing reduces the volts across every band even at full throttle. The only controllers that I know of that have this feature are 3rd and Slot.it (which you also own) :S

 

Maybe i'm confusing myself.

[nvmyre]

Oh and 3rd Eye has the full throttle bypass feature which might be more as you describe. But if I recall it is used in conjunction with the choke, and ignores the choke at full throttle. [Edit - Oops just repeated what Mac had already stated]

 

Personally I agree with Mac that a choke is a no no for proxies. I'd also agree that any adjustable controller can influence the capabilities of a car, putting a small amount of 'tuning' in the hands of the driver. But banning them would not be practical.

Edited September 19, 2015 by nvmyre

[SlotsNZ]

As I've never owned a controller with a choke, I am not sure if I understand them right, but I am told it gives "slower" response right through the trigger range until you hit full throttle then it gives full volts?

 

 

That's a confusing statement because by that description you own a controller with a 'choke'. The same controller as JK and I? However it is called Traction Control. A proper choke as Mac is describing reduces the volts across every band even at full throttle. The only controllers that I know of that have this feature are 3rd and Slot.it (which you also own) :S

 

Maybe i'm confusing myself.

 

Yeah you are, Jim Difalco said to me one day that he is forever correcting people who say Difalco controllers eg the DD304 (for 1.32 like us) have a choke.

 

Quoting an old email : "The only difference between the two units is the DD304 (vs. DD303) has an additional rheostat for traction control that helps limit overpowering the cars at the end of a turn."

 

It isn't a choke, it is a traction control which works the same as the Slot.it one, when you squeeze the trigger, it creates by rotation of the dial, a (variable) delay in the rise of the volts. ie, you could squeeze 3/4 of the way and it might represent a static position 9 volts, but it won't go 0 to 9 instantly, the dial allows creation of a little bit of "lag" in that rise.

 

- Whereas a choke would soften the controller in a given trigger position.

[munter]

My Carsteens have chokes. I use the choke if necessary when I am driving a round in a proxy.

The Carsteen choke takes power away from the complete voltage range.....it is also adjustable, as you can see.

 

Lets face it, there are so many variables in a proxy that expecting every driver to have the same equipment and the same skill level is a little silly. We have to trust that the driver will get the best out of each car using the best of their equipment and the best of their ability.

 

A quote I once saw re Proxy races...." a bit of a craps shoot"

[munter]

Think I have seen some proxy races where the rules state no adjustable controllers will be used by any drivers in any rounds......but that was a couple of years back.

 

I think we have moved on from then.

[GAS41T]

My 2cents

I own a 3rd eye pro, I setup and race with it but

I drive with full brakes with every style or combo

I run my sen- at 5 & traction at 5/6

So I'm down with choking or what ever it's called

As long as the driver uses his own controller they

Should know what setting is a base then its experience to adjust to drive the car best to there

Ability just my 2cents

 

Rossko

[drw21]

Hi Guys, (I hope you are all still talking)

 

When I said ‘turn his controller down’ I meant the attack or sensitivity, not to reduce the overall power from 12 to 11.8 volts etc like a choke would do.

 

Cheers - Dave.